Are we heading for Mutual Destruction?

How trying to listen is pushing us further apart

So I saved this story over the weekend and would recommend it as it is a good read with a lot of valid points;

There is no argument that women put up with a lot and that a subset of men are responsible for it. A minority of men don’t take no with respect and grace, actively degrade and harass women so there is an element of understanding why women can be wary of men.

Now I’m going to go into spoilers here and give away Jessica’s solution as you need to know this prior to understanding my issue with this attitude, so if you don’t want this spoiled, go read the above article.

I can wait…

Ready…

Her answer to people afraid of being creepy…They can stop.

There is a major problem with this outlook, it assumes those afraid of being creepy are the ones who are actually acting creepy, which is a major leap and one that is, quite frankly, wrong.

Let’s set aside for a moment that the exact same approach from a guy can be fine for one woman and creepy for another, or the same woman can find the same approach fine from one guy and creepy from another based solely on perceived attraction. (though we will come back to it as it does tie into the overall narrative somewhat, I promise) Guys who behave creepily, or overstep boundaries, or sit and stare without doing anything know what they are doing, that’s the point. The guys who are worrying are awkward, not socially adept, shy or unconfident. The idea of being creepy to them is mortifying.

These are also the guys who listen. They read all these stories of creepy guys, they learn where not to approach women (which ends up being everywhere) so they don’t, which leaves them lonely, without the practice to deal with the social awkwardness. In the meantime, women are asking why only creeps approach them or why men have stopped approaching or the ultimate, where are all the good men?

If we listen to you, we’re the problem, if we ignore you, we’re the problem. We ask you for advice but that very rarely works, if we’re kind to try and be more attractive we’re being manipulative or we’re a pushover, if we take up new hobbies to be more interesting and meet more people we’re opportunistic, if we’re vulnerable we aren’t masculine enough, if we show interest we’re needy, if we’re dominant it’s toxic and if we’re submissive we’re weak. Not to mention that we’re already to blame for everything because ‘Patriarchy’.

Some of what Jessica (and some other feminist writers) has said is true, men need to step in and intervene when they see someone being harassed or placed in an uncomfortable position, but, like I’m sure some women are already writing in the comments about how the last paragraph is a generalisation and all women are different and not a monolithic entity, the same goes for men. There’s no secret cabal meeting where we discuss the oppression of women or voting system on the direction of men going forward, we can only do what we see as individuals. Again, most of the guys who worry about being creepy, aren’t hanging around with guys who are nor are they likely in the places where these things happen.

To use myself as an example (as yes, I would count myself in that 50%) I don’t go out to clubs or bars, so I’m no use in that situation unless you’re the one who’s invited me out in the first place. As far as friends go, most of my male friends are in the kink community which does have it’s share of predators, but as a group we act to keep those affected safe, as a mod on a discord server we keep a ban list and any infractions are dealt with either in real time or in response to real life events, but the idea is to prevent the problematic people entering in the first place.

So chances are, this 50% of men are doing what they can to help, but they still get treated like they’re already guilty, mostly because they don’t look and talk like prime Pierce Brosnan era James Bond, or more accurately, have the attitude of Keanu Reeves but not his looks. To this the advice is ask for help, but when we do ask women, the advice rarely works and the only other’s offering advice are the likes of Tate and Peterson, to whom this current landscape is driving disenfranchised men in droves.

I get the majority of women have had at least one bad experience with a man or multiple men, in no way is this saying that doesn’t happen and I fully agree that those responsible need to be made examples of. In general I also understand that there’s no way of knowing where a stranger sits in terms of being that good person or bad person at first glance so I also get the suspicion and guarded responses. What I don’t agree with is the outright hostility to people just trying to find love, romance and intimacy in an increasingly lonely and barren world based on people they’ve never met and are nothing like.

In short, some of us are trying, we’re trying to be better, we’re listening and trying to act on what you say you want and how you want us to be. But when all we get in response is hatred and bile for not only daring to exist, but be loved as well, it can cause some to question whether this is the right side to be on.

If you also would like a good person as a life partner, but aren’t going to do the approaching or make your signals of interest blatantly clear, then the scorched earth policy is what’s keeping good men away If you have male friends, ones you care for who are depressed because they’re single, this is why, they feel like they are stuck where they can’t do anything right. If they don’t try they’re doomed to being single, if they do try, they’re vilified for daring to think they were worthy.

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